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teresChapter Twenty-Three (Part I) | Table of Contents | Chapter Twenty-Four (Part I)
SCSF: A good day, everyone, and welcome back to BattleAxe! Last time, Jack, Yr, Faraday and Timozel spent an impressive while in the tomb of the Enchanter-Talon whose name we should not know, and Timozel has some visions. Before we begin with the second part, let me do the reader post:
On part I of this chapter, Chessy notes that we do not get any indication of how Faraday notes that the masons who worked on the tomb were skilled. I think that merits this:
PPP: 134
On the Barrows, she rightly notes that none of them need to be so large, since the tombs in them are barely used. As she and Wolfgoddess note, there is also no need to have a separate entrance to the Star Gate for each Barrow. I guess the Icarii just wanted to show off how big they could build? There is certainly no reason given for this yet.
Chessy also notes that the tomb should have at least some decoration in it, if only to set it apart from the others. I guess Douglass did not think of that.
Cardboard Worldbuilding: 34
She finally notes that Jack and Yr ought to know who the Enchanter-Talon who was buried in the Barrow is. Since they do know, my best guess is that Douglass thought it necessary to keep his name from us, no matter that Jack and Yr have no compelling reason not to say it.
This Is What the Mystery: 16
I also see that there is an entry in the glossary for him, even though his name does not appear in this book at all!
PPP: 135
Wolfgoddess points out that it seems to be implied that the Talons all come from the same line, which would mean that there was never any civil war or such that resulted in a new dynasty.
Can’t Argue With Icarii: 7
She further notes that the way they descend the staircase does not make much sense. After all, with how narrow the staircase is, and given that Timozel can put his legs across it, they might easily keep their hands to the wall if they wanted support. On that, I also note that they cannot fall all that far, given how tightly the stair curls. Yes, some caution is necessary, but this seems a little unnecessary.
Ill Logic: 112
Let me resume with the second part of this chapter, then! Hopefully we will actually see the Star Gate!
Jack calls an end to the rest, and they all get up again. Yr has “done her best” with Faraday’s hair, and has now “coiled [it] into a neat roll in the nape of her neck”, with the worst tangles and mud removed. I do not think her hair will stay like that very long, especially since I do not see any mention of Yr fastening it, but still well done. Faraday looks at Timozel as they “climb down again”. She is reassured by his smile, and thinks that she will like “having her own personal Champion”.
We get some of Timozel’s feelings: he follows the others with “new assurance”. The vision makes him feel “older” and “more purposeful”, and ready to defend Faraday (and apparently “Artor himself, if need be”) at “a moment’s notice”. He feels himself a true Champion.
Well, that is certainly very nice for him, and if it were not Douglass writing this, I would be sure this would go interesting places. (shakes head) Either way, they keep “climbing” down the stairs, which actually needs some points—
PPP: 137 (+2)
—with the only light coming from the lanterns they hold. Faraday imagines what it must have been like to climb down in complete darkness and shivers. “But then”, she thinks, maybe the Enchanter-Talons “made their own light”. Eventually, they notice a “faint sound of wind” coming up the stairs. Faraday asks what it is, and feels Timozel touch her shoulder “reassuringly”.
Yr says that it is the sound of the Star Gate, her voice “stiff with barely suppressed excitement”. As they get closer, the sound becomes louder and “a faint blue light” can be seen along with that of their lamps. Ooh, that is interesting! Finally the light gets so strong that Jack asks Yr to douse her lamp, and “after a moment’s hesitation” Timozel does, too. Yr almost pushes Jack down the stairwell in her eagerness to get to the bottom. Please do it for real, Yr!
Jack grumbles at her that they are almost there, though he is “also keenly excited”. He has seen the Star Gate three times before, but “three hundred viewings would never be enough for him”. Hmm, that sentence seems to imply that he has viewed it three hundred times and that he wants to see it again, so I think this should be “even three hundred viewings”.
PPP: 138
They go around one more bend, and then the stairs end at a “corridor that angle[s] towards an open archway in the distance”. They have reached the bottom, at least! From the other side of the archway, “[b]lue light and sound” pulse at them. That is the Star Gate, then? Jack stops them for a while, though Yr looks so excited that Faraday momentarily thinks she might run off toward the Star Gate. Faraday’s heart “[begins] to pound”, and Timozel pulls her a little closer, “thinking she needs reassurance”.
Then Jack looks at Faraday and Timozel and gives even more explanations! He says there is no danger as long as they do not go through the Star Gate. But they need to be warned of “one or two things”. He asks Yr if she is listening as well. She nods impatiently and keeps looking at the archway. Jack turns back and explains that “[n]o human” has been near the Star Gate for “almost a thousand years”, and when the Icarii ruled, it was “rare indeed” that humans were allowed to see it.
Hmmm… since I doubt that the Icarii or Avar would risk coming to the Star Gate (or we are supposed to assume that, at least), and no humans went near there… this implies that another group of people has visited. Well done, Douglass!
He further says that it is one of “the most sacred Icarii sites in this land” (little wonder they did not want humans around, then), so they ought to treat it with “due reverence”. You cannot rightly ask that of them, Jack. They are not Icarii, after all, and this place is not sacred to them. You can and should ask for respect, but not for reverence.
He then switches topics rather abruptly, and says that the Star Gate is “very beautiful” and it will tempt them to go through. They can “hear it sing” now (alright then). But if they do, they will never come back. He asks if they understand. They both nod. Jack then finally leads them to the “Chamber of the Star Gate”.
Timozel grips Faraday’s hand as they follow Jack and Yr. He says he is a Champion and will “lead great armies”, so there is no need to fear the blue light. As soon as they step into the Chamber (finally!) they hear “the sound of a gale”, though there is not the slightest breath of wind. Oooh, magic.
After she has adjusted to the sound, Faraday’s first impression is that it is “a smaller, if more exquisite, version” of the Chamber of the Moons. Given what I know, I suspect the Chamber of the Moons might have been based on this one, then. The Chamber is “perfectly circular” and is surrounded by “pillars and archways”. Each of the pillars, which is made of “translucent white stone”, has been made into the likeness of “a naked, winged man”. So all the Talons were male. Good to know.
Most of the men have their “heads bowed and arms folded across their chests”, with their wings stretching so that their wingtips touch those of the people next to them. The point where the wingtips touch forms the apex of the archways. Faraday then sees that a section of pillars at the far side is different. These men have their head upright and their golden “orbs” staring at the Star Gate, “their arms uplifted in joy with their wings”. Faraday knows immediately there are twenty-six of them.
That does sound quite awesome, and I do like it! Timozel whispers Faraday’s name, and she sees him point at the ceiling of the chamber, where “[b]lue shadows” leap and chase after each other. Timozel thinks it is like “demons”. Faraday, in contrast, says that it is “beautiful”. I think that illustrates the contrast between their views quite well.
For myself, I can see both views, and I do not think Timozel is “overly religious” or any of the nonsense Douglass probably expects us to think. Jack speaks up, calling Faraday “lovely lady” again (I had hoped we were past that, but apparently not) and saying that she should look beneath the shadows.
He still stands in the archway and points at “what look[s] like the low rim of a large circular pool which occupie[s] the centre space of the floor.” Is it there, then? Faraday goes toward the pool, dragging “a reluctant Timozel” with her, “almost breathless with excitement”. Some paces from the pool, Timozel balks, which means that “he [will] go no further”. Thank you for that, Douglass.
Hand-Holding: 11
Faraday lets him go then (because she actually respects people’s wishes) and walks to the rim, which is “about knee height” and wide enough to sit on nicely. We have a very nice comma splice here.
PPP: 139
Without hesitation, she sits down, and we get a description of “[d]eep blue light” reflecting on her face and on the vault above. As she looks, her “lips part[] and her eyes widen[]” and she forgets to breathe “[f]or a few moments”. Yr and Jack join her, and for “long minutes” the three of them stare into the Star Gate. And what is it they can see…?
The circular pool contained no water; instead, to all intents and purposes, it contained the universe. The real one, not the faint shadow that lights the night sky. Stars reeled and danced, suns chased each other across galaxies, moons dipped and swayed through planetary systems, luminous comets threaded their mysterious paths through the cosmos. The sound of vast interstellar winds roared out into the chamber and a luminous deep blue light pulsed through the Star Gate. Its depths stretched into infinity.
Wow! That is truly amazing! I could certainly spend a very long time looking into it, too, and now I also understand why it can be so dangerous.
I do have a few nitpicks, so let me get those out of the way, then. First, this and the “faint shadow that lights the night sky” are the same. Yes, the atmosphere makes it appear fainter, but the universe you can see is still the real one. In fact, I could argue that this one is “less real”, since it does not accurately represent what the universe actually looks like.
Also, why is there suddenly present tense here?
PPP: 140
Aside from that… I am quite certain that the wind they can hear is not actually the sound of “interstellar winds”, since space is so empty that I doubt something the size of the Star Gate would gather much of it.
PPP: 141
Still, I like it very much! Faraday tries to say something to Jack, but there “[are] no words to describe what she [sees]”. She begins to cry because of “sheer wonder” at the “beauty and majesty” of the Star Gate. She think it is “no wonder” that the Icarii worship here and that they worship the “Star Gate’s reflection in the night sky” when they cannot be here. We get this:
Artor paled into utter insignificance for Faraday as she battled to come to terms with what she saw. Nothing she had been taught about Artor and the Way of the Plough could compare with this.
This is not bad per se, and I would be far more accepting of it if this book had not gone out of its way to portray the Way of the Plough as bad. If, for example, Faraday is already questioning her faith, I can see this sending her further along that path. However, I can not see this simply making Artor “pale into insignificance”, like here. It is another expression of the ridiculous timeline of Faraday losing her religion. I simply do not buy that she would lose it on her own within a week under the circumstances.
Another thing, which Wolfgoddess noted, and I noted earlier, is that Timozel is probably supposed to be looked down on for sincerely believing in his fate, and doing such things as making the Sign of the Plough when he hears about Enchanters. And that is very silly, right? I also get the feeling that we are supposed to look down on him for clinging to the “obviously” evil religion, never mind that recognising that and then untangling himself from the Way of the Plough would be a quite difficult process.
That leads me to think that we are supposed to look up to Faraday for losing her faith so easily, and presumably having it replaced with another one in the future. I think that Douglass quite undercut herself in this by having Faraday have practically no agency in losing her faith. The most she did was ask about the Forbidden earlier, and here she apparently loses her faith forgood… by looking at the Star Gate, something that she does not know will do that. How are we supposed to admire her for breaking away from the Way of the Plough when she never chooses to?
Then we have the much less subtle point: “Faraday makes the right choice in leaving the Way of the Plough. Timozel is foolish and superstitious for clinging to it. You should leave the Way of the Plough”. I am quite certain that is what Douglass wanted to convey, after all.
Maria Monk Redux: 47 (+10)
Just stop it, Douglass! Either way, she says she envies “with every fibre of her being” the Enchanter-Talons who have gone through the gate and thinks about what an “incredible joy” they must have felt when they stepped in. Perhaps they have even joined the stars “as they dance[] through the universe”. She wants to join them and wonders if she will be “good enough for the Gate to accept her”. She stretches her hands to the Star Gate…
Then Jack takes some responsbility and puts an arm around her shoulders, telling her not to be tempted, as it is not for her or for him to step through. Only “an Icarii Enchanter powerful beyond telling” could hope to survive. Yes, because it is not like using a space suit with propulsion is a tried and true method of moving through space, which requires no magical powers at all! No, this simply requires someone ~very powerful~.
Ill Logic: 113
Faraday looks at Jack with some diffculty. She sees his cheeks show “the trail of tears”. We never heard about that with Faraday, so why is it this instead of “a trail of tears” or “the trails of tears”?
PPP: 142
Faraday asks if not only the dead Enchanter-Talons go through. Jack “carefully” thinks before he replies to her. (“Hmm, what half-truth can I best feed her so she will ask no difficult questions?”) He says that “[it] is said” that “one day” the Icarii will “breed” an Enchanter who is powerful enough to go through the Gate and come out again. He does not know what the Enchanter would find there.
Presumably the other Enchanter-Talons? That is what I would expect, at least. Also, the “it is said” attributions do not make me take trust his sources. Finally, “breed”? That is not a very fortunate word choice.
Jack then thinks he does not know “what he did find there” and looks up at the statues of the Enchanter-Talons. Ah, so he did indeed give her a half-truth! Faraday misses this, because she looks at the Star Gate again. She whispers that she does not know why the Enchanter would “ever want to come back out again”.
Jack does not answer the question, and instead says that it is good she has seen the sight, as it “will help [her] through the next years of [her] life” and she should always remember it. That does not bode well for the next years of her life, then, and we probably have quite a lot of Faraday torture coming up. Lovely. Faraday echos this and then Jack pulls her away from the Gate and “hand[s] her” to Timozel, who still does not look into the Gate. Jack calls him “lad” and tells him to keep Faraday back. Timozel is annoyed at being called “lad”, but pleased that Jack lets him care for Faraday. I am not sure why he needs to care for her now, though, and I think it is this:
No-Wave Feminism: 29
Yes, Faraday can have been a little overwhelmed by the Star Gate, but that hardly means that she needs supervision! Either way, Jack goes to fetch Yr, who “reluctantly” goes along and follows Jack back to Faraday and Timozel. As they meet, Timozel asks if each of the archways leads to a Barrow, as there are more archways than Barrows.
Come to think of it… why are the statues of the Enchanter-Talons at the opposite side of the room from where their Barrows are? That seems a little strange to me.
Cardboard Worldbuilding: 35 (I count it as worldbuilding since this would have been built long before the story begins)
Jack explains that only “some of them” lead to the Barrows. The others lead... “elsewhere”, as the Icarii needed other ways of entrance than the “Barrows of the Enchanter-Talons”. Would you think?
Hand-Holding: 12
He says that there are “others who ply their way to and from the Star Gate and use corridors still stranger than those the Icarii used”. Well, apparently we need it spelled out for us that there are other groups. Also, why does Jack tell them this when he wants to be so secretive?
Ill Logic: 114
This Is What the Mystery: 17
He then tells Timozel to “make sure Faraday follows”, and then he will lead them out via another way. Jack takes Yr’s hand and leads them to a passage between two statues of ordinary Talons. As they go in, Faraday rouses, “turning for one last look at the Chamber of the Star Gate”.
She asks why the Icarii put wings on the men, and if it is meant to “symbolise their status as StarFarers”. That is certainly a fair question, and a good way to explain it! Jack reacts as follows:
Jack turned around, his disbelief making him laugh a little. Did she not understand? “Symbolise? No, sweet heart, these pillars are accurate representations of the Icarii. Sweet lady, the Icarii are winged people.”
…Yes, we could have figured that out for ourselves long ago, Douglass. After all, we heard they are called “People of the Wing”, their name indicates that they probably have wings and, even more clearly, we see Rivkah call a winged figure by the name of an Icarii. Why is this a reveal?
Simultaneously, it seems like Douglass is even mocking people for thinking it is a reveal. That is not how you write this, Douglass.
This Is What the Mystery: 18
Now for how Jack actually behaves. How should Farady have “understood” when Veremund himself told her that they were called “the people of the Wing” because they preferred high places and loved astronomy? And how should she “understand” when the tales about the Forbidden do not mention winged people, as far as we can see? Yes, how dare she believe the half-truths you want her to believe!
Even outside of that, this is so condescending! He is laughing at her, and I would also wish he did not call her “sweet lady”.
Petty Ain’t the Word for You: 31
Either way, the chapter ends with that “reveal”. Next time, we are still with this group, I see. Until then!
(no subject)
Thursday, 20 June 2024 18:35 (UTC)In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Genesis 1:1, RSV
Since I was invited to discuss how bad Doughlass' grasp on Catholic theology is, I may as well discuss just how off-base this is.
To begin, one of the first things a cradle-Catholic is taught is is, well, the first chapter of Genesis where God creates everything in the universe. Naturally, this includes the night sky and all the stars. A Catholic who is not looking for an excuse to fall away will not have their faith fail due to visions of the grandeur and majesty of the cosmos, because such visions are but shadows of the Lord God Almighty who has created such wondrous things. I myself find similar things faith-affirming for just that reason.
As such, for Faraday to naturally lose her faith in such a shallow manner one of two things needs to be true:
A), Her faith was already mostly a matter of lip-service. Which does not seem to have been the case.
B), the Way of the Plough has teachings on astronomy which this vision proves are untrue. Which... also seems to not be the case.
And since we know the Sentinels freely use mind control to get what they want, I'm thinking she didn't naturally convert to worship of the stars.
(There is techncally a third option, where in which Artor is not the Creator of Heaven and Earth and Faraday is simply changing her primary allegiance, but if that's the case Doughlass REALLY dropped the ball on what the Church is.)
While I'm at it, my mother recently reminded me that the one science directly supported by the Church is in fact astronomy, because the date of Easter is *inhale* 'the first sunday after the first full moon after the Spring Equinox', so the Church of Artor's ignorance is pretty off-base.
To be very strictly fair, the setting doesn't have spacesuits yet. In the absence of spacesuits survival in space would require a great deal of magic.
(no subject)
Thursday, 20 June 2024 18:59 (UTC)SCSF: Thank you for all of that!
I do wonder... I do not think we have heard of any creation story so far. Yes, Artor gave humanity the Plough, but did He also create humanity? How do the people of Achar believe they came to be? It is just such a big missing piece, especially when it is an obvious rip-off of Christianity.
To be very strictly fair, the setting doesn't have spacesuits yet. In the absence of spacesuits survival in space would require a great deal of magic.
And, to be further fair, the Icarii believe they have only a limited amount of spells at this point, so they probably would not think of it. It just bothers me that Jack does not think of any other method than "power".
(no subject)
Thursday, 20 June 2024 21:32 (UTC)And yeah, the lack of clarity on who and what Artor even is is indeed a problem.
You do have a point there, seeing as Jack could have said 'only the most skilled Enchanters can survive'.
(no subject)
Saturday, 22 June 2024 11:27 (UTC)How did Yr get the mud out of Faraday's hair? Tangles can be combed out with the fingers if you're tenacious enough, so that's realistic, but without water, I don't see that mud coming out.
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Sorry, but...I'm guessing this means they douse their lamps? It's not said.
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That light must be damn near blinding up close if it can be seen not only from a distance, but around a whole turn of the stairs, through solid stone.
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Timozel, honey, I like you, but you've started to get awfully handsy this chapter. I know you mean well, but let's keep our hands to ourselves, shall we?
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That's quite a strange conclusion to leap to. The way this is described, it makes me think of the patterns of sunlight on the bottom of a pool. It sounds pretty benign, so I don't get why he immediately thinks it's demons.
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Called it! Kind of. Also, if the pool is that large, how come they only notice it when Jack points it out? They've already been looking around, so they should have spotted it before now.
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Oh, well done, fools. If the Gate is so mesmerizing, maybe don't let her just run over and stick her face in it.
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Where were you when she was running over to it in the first place?! What if she had tripped and fallen headlong through the Gate? Oops, there goes your hope of saving the world.
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Nice little bit of sexism, too. Only males are powerful enough to go through. Us puny wimminz better just stay away.
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Then why put two dozen entrances in the same general location? I don't understand why every Enchanter needs their own personal doorway. That choice of design is still stupid.
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...because tight corkscrew stairs are just so strange, I guess. I have a feeling that many medieval castles would beg to differ.
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If Jack has to hold Yr's hand, does that imply that the women are just too susceptible to the Gate's allure, and will go jump in if they don't have a big strong man keeping them in check?
(no subject)
Saturday, 22 June 2024 12:46 (UTC)How did Yr get the mud out of Faraday's hair? Tangles can be combed out with the fingers if you're tenacious enough, so that's realistic, but without water, I don't see that mud coming out.
SCSF: That is a good question! Maybe she tried getting it out with her cloak? I have no idea.
Sorry, but...I'm guessing this means they douse their lamps? It's not said.
That was a fault on my part, and it should be resolved now!
That light must be damn near blinding up close if it can be seen not only from a distance, but around a whole turn of the stairs, through solid stone.
That is certainly true! If they went down a corridor in the first place, this would have fit much better.
That's quite a strange conclusion to leap to. The way this is described, it makes me think of the patterns of sunlight on the bottom of a pool. It sounds pretty benign, so I don't get why he immediately thinks it's demons.
Because he's Catholic and superstitious, of course! At least, I am convinced that is what Douglass meant... so it should actually get a Petty point, I think.
Called it! Kind of. Also, if the pool is that large, how come they only notice it when Jack points it out? They've already been looking around, so they should have spotted it before now.
It is contrived that they first look around the room and then at the ceiling, indeed.
Where were you when she was running over to it in the first place?! What if she had tripped and fallen headlong through the Gate? Oops, there goes your hope of saving the world.
They truly should have kept a tighter watch on her indeed.
Nice little bit of sexism, too. Only males are powerful enough to go through. Us puny wimminz better just stay away.
Ah, there are actually quite some female Enchanters, and we will even see a "very powerful" one in this trilogy.
...because tight corkscrew stairs are just so strange, I guess. I have a feeling that many medieval castles would beg to differ.
That is actually for an entirely different reason!
If Jack has to hold Yr's hand, does that imply that the women are just too susceptible to the Gate's allure, and will go jump in if they don't have a big strong man keeping them in check?
Not in general, I think, but it does imply that about Yr and Faraday. Very feminist.